NIRVANA IN FIRE: Episode 2

[adisgracetothescholars]

Introduction

rageprufrock: How. Is. This. Only. Episode. Two.

tactless_yet_lovable: It’s like when it’s the first day of class and the professor immediately went from the syllabus to a pop quiz and an in-depth analysis about why everything that has happened in the world today can be traced back to the political climate of 1800 or something. Shit takes off and you’re frantically cursing and trying to find a pencil in your bag.

moggiesandtea: That’s...actually a fairly apt description.

Plot

moggiesandtea: We open on the palace at night. The Emperor is in his throne room, talking with his chief eunuch, Eunuch Gao about how many letters of interest they’ve gotten for Nihuang.

kitsunec4: Ah yes, the meddling family members and matchmaking, eternal. But this particular example definitely is, how should I put it, also far more political in nature.

moggiesandtea: He reveals that his main concern is that Nihuang led the army along the southern border long enough he’s afraid of them being more loyal to her than to him.

kitsunec4: Worst Dadperor is right to be paranoid on a purely political level, while the emperor is the center of power, the Mu family are powerful nobles who defend and hold the southern border. The phrase out of sight out of mind definitely applies to imperial power along
the southern border.

lazulisong: Also, Nihuang is very competent. This is not something a paranoid emperor wants to see.

tammaiya: And paranoia is definitely the Emperor’s fatal character flaw, in the technical dramatic sense. He’s got plenty of character flaws, generally speaking— but it’s his paranoia that underpins all of the tragedies that set the story of NIF in motion.

moggiesandtea: We cut to General Meng Zhi being very attractive beating people up, as Prince Yu and the Marquis of Ning watch and despair at the quality of fighters they have to put forward to win Nihuang’s hand.

kitsunec4: Their pain pleases me.

ohbthr: General Meng is attractive as a general rule but he's ESPECIALLY attractive when beating people up. Yes this will be a theme.

tactless_yet_lovable: The only man who can successfully wear facial hair in ALL of Nirvana in Fire.

rageprufrock: Imagine me pounding a table and hissing, “I fucking love General Meng.” He’s among the purest, most delightful characters on this show, is OP as fuck in terms of martial arts skills, dumb as a box of hammers, and my ride or die. Fuck yeah, General Meng.

tammaiya: We all stan for this glorious giant puppy dog of a man, who is so strong and so loyal but also can be as dense as two planks of wood sometimes. He’s just so pure and lovable. Also, he really does rock that beard, which is a rarity amongst the cast and should be appreciated. (All I can say is, it’s a good thing Mei Changsu is clean shaven, because Hu Ge’s attempts at facial hair cause me pain on a spiritual level.) Anyway, yeah, Meng is really strong, and the guys who are being put forward are… really not.

hollyberries: It reflects a wider problem with Da Liang - none of the younger generation among the nobles have the hardiness or discipline to train for martial arts. It’s hinted that the emperor has encouraged this trend to prevent the rise of young generals who have the family background to potentially unseat him, and also the possibility that the emperor has weeded out capable men in advance to prevent Nihuang marrying anyone he can’t personally control. The other interesting point is that at 28, Nihuang is far older than convention allows for unmarried women, and therefore all the men currently competing are probably younger than her.

moggiesandtea: We learn that Meng Zhi is in charge of security around the palace, while the Marquis of Ning is in charge of security around Jinling, and the two are supposed to coordinate on security with all these foreigners arriving for the competition.

Meng Zhi and the Marquis head off to the Marquis’s home. Prince Yu scolds his men, then explains to one of his flunkies that, with the Duke of Qing under investigation, they need one of Prince Yu’s supporters to win Nihuang to help solidify their power base. We also learn Prince Yu and the Crown Prince are still trying to find Mei Changsu, who seems to have vanished into thin air.

kitsunec4: What they don’t yet know is the levels of Mei Changsu’s troll tendencies. I almost, aaaalmost, feel bad for them at that.

tactless_yet_lovable: They deserve every second of Mei Changsu.

moggiesandtea: Cut to Mei Changsu, hanging out in the courtyard of the Snow Cottage at the Marquis of Ning’s estate, making himself tea while Fei Liu flies around and tries to get Mei Changsu to play with him. Mei Changsu tells him to go out and play. Enter Yujin and Jingrui, who are somewhat astonished Mei Changsu is letting Fei Liu jump around unattended. Mei Changsu says it’ll be fine, Fei Liu has a good temper.

kitsunec4: You know how some people spoil their teacup sized dogs and create monsters while cooing and insisting that baby is the best behaved ever? Mei Changsu is that guy.

arrghigiveup: Jingrui and Yujin have known Fei Liu for all of what, days? And even they are like, lol, you think his temper is what now.

tammaiya: Jingrui would have known Fei Liu from before, when he was travelling around with Mei Changsu, but yeah, Yujin isn’t buying that either.

lazulisong: Ugh Mei Changsu just loves that kid like all the suppressed doting of twelve lonely years gets unloaded on that child. I am Emosh!!!

rageprufrock: There’s actually a great passage from the novel that directly addresses this, and specifically how people are all astonishment that this is how Mei Changsu is raising this child. It’s perfection.

hollyberries: Lol in comparison Nihuang raises sweet baby dumbass Mu Qing. Of the main trio, MCS is definitely on the bottom of the pile for parenting.

kitsunec4: I literally just ran for my copy of the book, there’s two segments I’m thinking of, one is in volume 1, pg 14 of the complex Chinese edition I bought from a Taiwanese bookstore, roughly translated/paraphrased, it goes something like:
“What? Our Fei Liu is so well-behaved, very obedient.” Mei Changu waved a hand, and immediately Fei Liu drifted to the man to rest his head on his knees. “...and he likes being cute too, just don’t roughhouse around me and you’ll be fine.”

hollyberries: In passing, Jingrui and Yujin both react by looking at each other like old married couples or lifelong friends, and I just - love how pure they are with each other??



ohbthr: “Like old married couples or lifelong friends” uhhhh por que no los dos?

tactless_yet_lovable: The purest of the cinnamon roll babies. The most beautiful of “who wants to tell Mei Changsu that his child is a rude goblin” sideeyes.

kitsunec4: I give up on finding where exactly in the novel this is from, but there’s a segment where Jingrui is listening to Mei Changu say things along the lines of, “and this is why our Fei Liu isn't in the wrong at all!” Jingrui basically breaks into a cold sweat and wonders to himself, who the hell teaches a kid like this?

tammaiya: Mei Changsu, that’s who. He’s raising himself his own little nightmare gremlin child while insisting his precious baby is an angel who would never do anything wrong. While Fei Liu is in the process of breaking all the fine china.

I feel a bit sorry for his parents, honestly. Parents are supposed to get to be vindictively smug when their grandchild is just as much of a little monster as their own child was and revel in the karma, but their son (who was himself a terror) just eggs Fei Liu on and indulges him shamelessly.

moggiesandtea: Of course, the next scene involves Fei Liu getting in a fight with Meng Zhi, who has arrived with the Marquis and finds this random guy flying around to be a security risk. They are very evenly matched in terms of skill, and the fight continues until Mei Changsu shows up, Jingrui and Yujin in tow.

The Marquis is taken aback by a) the dig Meng Zhi makes about the Marquis’s guards being unaware and b) Fei Liu’s martial ability. Mei Changsu does make a point of explaining he himself has no martial ability.

Mei Changsu and co. return to the Snow Cottage’s courtyard, where Mei Changsu and Jingrui discuss how the whole just a regular ill scholar Su Zhe cover may not fly after this. Fei Liu sulks very dramatically in the background. Jingrui’s younger brother, Xie Bi eavesdrops and hears all of this.

tammaiya: By the way, this confused me immensely at first, but for reasons that become a lot clearer later on in the story, Jingrui has two families, and shares a surname with neither. So he is considered a son of both the Xie family and the Dingfeng family, but because they don’t know whose biological kid he is and one of his possible mothers is the sister of the Emperor, the Emperor bestowed his own family name (Xiao) on Jingrui, which is an immense honour.

tactless_yet_lovable: Xie Bi scurries away with his tasty knowledge while Mei Changsu looks pointedly away, because I’m positive he could sense Xie Bi was there.

moggiesandtea: Xie Bi rushes to report to Prince Yu. The Marquis of Ning, meanwhile, has taken his new suspicions re: Su Zhe’s identity to the Crown Prince. Prince Yu, with Banruo’s input, decides to send the Empress (his adopted mom) to meet Mei Changsu. The Marquis advises the Crown Prince that if Mei Changsu won’t join their faction, he will have to be eliminated.

lazulisong: I feel like this is a big etiquette thing I was not aware of at first?

kitsunec4: I mean, you can’t just barge in and introduce yourself?

hollyberries: It looks less obviously desperate if the Empress is the one making the connection vs Prince Yu dropping in directly, and for political reasons Marquis Ning is currently masquerading as one of the neutral guys so it’s unlikely he’d agree to Prince Yu’s request.

lazulisong: No I mean, it still seems like the empress personally coming to meet you is a bigger deal than MCS wants to deal with?

moggiesandtea: We cut to Nihuang and Xia Dong riding out of the city. Nihuang is seeing Xia Dong off on her investigation, and each is advising the other to be careful. They happen to be by the road when Prince Jing, Xiao Jingyan, rides up. Nihuang greets him and makes an observation to the effect that Jingyan has been basically banished; Xia Dong does her level best to ignore his existence. Jingyan asks the ladies what they’re up to, and when he hears Xia Dong is headed off on an investigation, he asks if it’s another big conspiracy case like the Chiyan one, because he has no tact. Having tossed that barb, he rides off to see the Emperor.

lazulisong: To give you an idea of HOW MUCH is packed in one episode, especially the early ones, until I started the rewatch I was absolutely convinced Jingyan doesn’t show up until at least ep 7.

tactless_yet_lovable: I thought ep 3, so when I realized he was in this episode, I had to have a nice little pause and scream because I was not ready and my fave had arrived, in all his blunt beauty. I think I kept making little whimpering noises?

But also, like, for some plot relevant analysis that isn’t just sob-cooing, this exchange between Xia Dong, Nihuang and Jingyan, and then between Xia Dong and Nihuang once Jingyan rides off, is an IMMEDIATE alert to the viewer that Jingyan 100% believes that the Lin family were innocent of any treason. He and Xia Dong haven’t spoken in a decade because she’s part of the Xuanjing Bureau (aka the ones who found the Lins guilty of treason). Baby is loyal, is what I’m saying.

kitsunec4: Jingyan has zero tact and no skill for the court as it currently is under the Emperor, being far too straightforward, but arguably this is why we love him.

rageprufrock: As someone will say later on, it’s Jingyan’s pure heart and unbending will that will make him great. And it must be protected. These dark and evil deeds -- let someone else’s hands be marred. EXCUSE ME I HAVE TO GO SOB SOMEWHERE ELSE.

hollyberries: R U D E

tammaiya: THANKS, SATAN, it’s like 30 episodes too early for me to be having this many feelings about that!! But in any case, Jingyan’s unbending sense of justice is both his best quality and his greatest weakness, along with his stubbornness. He doesn’t play political games, he refuses to compromise or mask his feelings, and that’s why he has spent the past ten years on remote border postings and has no political capital to spend.

hollyberries: He and Nihuang still care so much about each other, even if they can’t be friends anymore ;______;

moggiesandtea: We get a little bit of explanation about this whole Chiyan conspiracy thing--according to the official investigation, the Lin family conspired to rebel. Jingyan has apparently never bought this story, and neither has Nihuang. We find out she was engaged to a son of the Lin family, Lin Shu.

Nihuang makes the observation that Jingyan has the strength of his convictions, and that’s why he doesn’t have the noble prince ranking.

kitsunec4: Aka, Jingyan you stubborn ass! Ugh. He’s so good, what if I just lie down here, verklempt by feels.

lazulisong: my babbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

hollyberries: Ugh, pass me some tissues please.

moggiesandtea: In fact, Jingyan doesn’t even have a badge granting him access to the palace. He has to wait for someone to go find the Emperor and get his permission for Jingyan to enter. This time, the Emperor, the Crown Prince and Prince Yu are engaging in calligraphy connoisseurship when the messenger arrives, and the Crown Prince brushes the messenger off while his dad’s distracted.

tactless_yet_lovable: It’s so goddamn lonely pretty. Jingyan is motionless. Not even his cloak is moving while he stands waiting. The only reason he’s waiting is because the last time he arrived in the city to give a report, he went home first to clean up and the Emperor got pissed and made him kneel outside the ancestral halls for 3 months.

rageprufrock: The Emperor is a piece of shit.

tammaiya: He’s known in fandom as Worst Dad for good reasons. And there’s some stiff competition in this show.

moggiesandtea: Two hours later, Eunuch Gao reminds the Emperor that Jingyan is waiting outside. The Emperor had forgotten, because he is kind of the worst. Jingyan is summoned, and the Crown Prince and Prince Yu both set on him about his appearance, his disrespectful manner, etc. It’s the only thing they agree on. The Emperor glances over Jingyan’s report and dismisses him.

hollyberries: Eunuch Gao for stealth MVP of this whole series, honestly. He’s the perfect servant to a mercurial dictator and yet manages to pull critical hits for the home team when he can.

tactless_yet_lovable: But Jingyan’s not even that disrespectful, the crown prince is being a dick. “Oh wow, Jingyan, you couldn’t even take the time to clean off the road dirt before seeing our father?” Uh, no, because last time he got slammed for that instead. It’s a no-win situation and Jingyan is so fucking done with everything.

moggiesandtea: The scene shifts to Jingyan’s mom, Concubine Jing, and her maidservant talking about how it’s such a shame Jingyan wasn’t able to get permission to visit this time. It’s okay, though, because he’ll be able to enter Concubine Jing’s palace on the first of the lunar month, in five days, and he’s such a filial son who will definitely come visit. Jingmom has the maidservant pack up and send Jingyan the hazelnut pastries that she made for him.

hollyberries: She had the cookies ready to go, probably because she made them every day once she heard he’d be on his way back, so she wouldn’t miss the day and so the pastries would be fresh. JINGMUM BEST MUM.

lazulisong: Meg, on the second watch: hahahaha THIS IS FINE, IM NOT LIKE CRYING OR ANYTHING ALREADY

arrghigiveup: The fact that he doesn’t even have permission to see his own mother on a regular basis is just. The WORST.

ohbthr: AGREED. Dadperor, you suck.

rageprufrock: The relationship between Concubine Jing and her son is one of the most crushing, textured, and amazing in this massively complex and emotionally resonant show. It’s also completely different from the way mother-son relationships are typically depicted in these palace and royal conspiracy dramas, where they skew much more toward the relationship of Empress and Prince Yu or the Crown Prince and his Imperial Consort mother.

lunatique: Agreed. The genuine love, respect and trust these two have for each other is amazingly refreshing to watch. (It’s not a precursor to knives later in the show, definitely not.)

kitsunec4: By introducing Concubine Jing and Jingyan in the same episode, it makes it all the clearer that Jingyan is, in all the ways that truly matters, her son...excuse me, I have to go have Feelings right now.

tammaiya: The narrative is also clearly setting up the contrast between Jingyan and Concubine Jing as compared to the Crown Prince and his mother, and Prince Yu and the Empress. In all the venal, petty plottings for power, Jingyan and his mother are the underdogs, making do with the scraps of what they are given while refusing to beg or play the same games as the others. They’re so good and pure, and their situation is so shitty because the Emperor is such a raging asshole, and now I’m angry and sad again, ugh.

moggiesandtea: We return to Mei Changsu, Jingrui and Yujin returning to the Marquis’s estate. They’re greeted by Xie Bi who is excited to tell his older brother about their important guests--the Empress! Oh and Nihuang--who want to meet the scholar Su Zhe! Jingrui lays into his brother about being so rude as to put their houseguest in such an uncomfortable position, and we learn that Jingrui is really quite protective of poor sick Mei Changsu. He ushers Mei Changsu off to the Snow Cottage, and the two chat about politics. Mei Changsu observes that Xie Bi is allied with Prince Yu. Jingrui doesn’t quite understand why his dad allows that, but he is proud that his dad, the Marquis of Ning, you know, the one who ran right to the Crown Prince, is neutral in all this political stuff. Jingrui proceeds to completely miss Mei Changsu’s sarcasm on the matter.

arrghigiveup: I really love how genuinely heated up he gets on behalf of Mei Changsu he is such a Good.

tammaiya: Cursed by such a shitty dad. See also, Dadperor’s competition for the Worst Dad award.

kitsunec4: Jingrui is too Good and Pure for the plots he gets inadvertently tangled up in by the terrible fact of who he is, really.

hollyberries: Jingrui keeps a clear head amidst all the politics while taking no part in it, what a good kiddo.

ohbthr: [crying emoji] my poor son [crying emoji]

moggiesandtea: The Grand Princess Liyang, wife of the Marquis of Ning, is having the most uncomfortable tea with the Empress and Nihuang. Nihuang observes she could care less about this scholar, but she’d love to meet his bodyguard.

rageprufrock: (I’m just cutting in here to say that I stan for Grand Princess Liyang.)

moggiesandtea: We cut to the first round of the suitors’ tournament. Both the Crown Prince and Prince Yu are paying more attention to the empty seats where Yujin, Jingrui, and guest would be than they are the competition. Mei Changsu and Jingrui, meanwhile, are loitering at the Snow Cottage, Mei Changsu drinking tea and Jingrui having Fei Liu try on different hair ties. Yujin arrives to scold them for their tardiness, but Jingrui makes the excellent point that the Emperor will put on an appearance and if they go late, they can miss the bowing ceremony.

kitsunec4: And also be fashionably late. And be petty af and not have to kneel to the Emperor.

moggiesandtea: Sometime after midday, Mei Changsu and co. make their way to the palace grounds to watch the tournament. Pretty much the only audience member who is paying attention/cares about the quality of competition is Mu Qing, Nihuang’s brother, who is really offended by the quality of the fighters this early on.

kitsunec4: Mu Qing is his sister’s biggest fanboy, and honestly? It’s really fucking endearing to me. Because everyone should be a fan of Nihuang.

ohbthr: Mu Qing respects, loves, and fears his sister, as he should.

arrghigiveup: His overprotectiveness is cute partly because he’s so over the top about it, but mostly because Nihuang could beat his ass and he knows it and adores her for it.

tactless_yet_lovable: He is the pomeranian attempting to defend a rottweiler. It’s so goddamn sweet especially because you know Nihuang can handle herself 100x better than him.

hollyberries: Nihuang raises good children lol.

tammaiya: Unlike SOMEONE, Mei Changsu. But yeah, he’s just… so enthusiastically excitable and sweet in his fanboy behaviour. Not toxic at all. I love him.

rageprufrock: He’s also the most casual of the characters in this series? Everybody else is either so stitched up because they’re royal or mannered because they were raised right, and Mu Qing was absolutely raised right but is ignoring all of it in favor of being adorable and ready to throw hands at any even perceived slight against his sister. He is chaotic good, is what I’m saying.

kitsunec4: It’s true, both Mu Qing and Fei Liu are characters who are deeply confident of being loved by their family and are the ones who get to behave like actual children. (Someone remind me later to yell about how Yujin just buries his hurt feelings and smarts under pretending to be extra spoiled.)

moggiesandtea: The Crown Prince and Prince Yu immediately descend. What follows is a hilarious back and forth where Prince Yu flatters the Jiangzhuo Alliance (Mei Changsu: that has nothing to do with me), the Crown Prince gives him a jade token for free access to the palace (Mei Changsu: immediately gives it to Fei Liu), Prince Yu offers him library access, the Crown Prince offers to buy the texts in Prince Yu’s library and just give them to Mei Changsu--and I’m sure they would have continued in this vein except a eunuch arrives with a summons from the Grand Empress for Jingrui, Yujin, and their guest.

lunatique: The peacocking in this scene is just. So much. Although I enjoyed it as probably the most “light-hearted” banter these brothers ever have.

rageprufrock: This entire scene, as a culturally Chinese person, is embarrassing and hilarious.

lazulisong: This is a lot more obvious to me after I spent mumble hours being schooled on the undercurrents involved, but I remember being impressed by the shade being thrown E V E R Y W H E R E even the first time I watched it.

kitsunec4: it’s really the most amazing manners tap dance of who has more jiajiao than thou. As one might have noticed, the Crown Prince is kind of dumb and far too heavy-handed to truly win at this sort of game. (Jiajiao being a shit to translate phrase that literally translates to “domestic education,” but really boils down to, “were you brought up right?”)

(tammaiya: If you want to get an idea of someone lacking jiajiao, just imagine the aghast “were you RAISED IN A BARN?” because you have your elbows on the table, or the judgemental way everyone looks at the mother of a 5 year old kicking seats in an airplane or chucking a tantrum in the supermarket, and then extend that to all the finer points of etiquette and assume your parents will still be judged on your behalf when you’re thirty.)

hollyberries: Prince Yu is really good at appearing cultured and respectful, but always with a faintly oily feeling because he is one smug mofo.

ohbthr: Even me, the monolingual American, can tell/appreciate that Prince Yu is always perfectly playing propriety without actually meaning it. It’s a very good effort.

moggiesandtea: The summons gives Mei Changsu an emotion. He tells Fei Liu they are going to see an old grandmother, the most peaceful grandmother on earth.

lazulisong: “You have to be nice to her even if she touches you” I’m going to go climb on a cliff and throw myself off it right now, thanks. Not even the horrible depression of MCS seeing the Great Grand Empress again, just like -- how much MCS takes care of Fei Liu gives me too many Emotions.

tammaiya: but also, how much MCS loves and respects the Grand Empress, UGH. MCS doesn’t give someone respect just because of their rank, this is very personal.

kitsunec4: Shit, I’m about to have an emotion over the summons from the Grand Empress right now, myself.

moggiesandtea: The Grand Empress is surrounded by the high ranking ladies of the court: the Empress, the Crown Prince’s mom, the Grand Princess Liyang (Jingrui’s mom), and Nihuang. The Grand Empress, who is the Emperor’s grandmother and therefore great-grandmother to a lot of folks, is mostly concerned with who these kids are, what family they’re from, and if they’re married yet. Xiao Rui, have you married yet? Why not, you need to hurry up! Xiao Jin, have you married yet? This is when we learn some poor woman has actually married Yujin, but Granny is unconcerned and immediately starts in on does he have kids yet? No? Why not, you need to hurry up!

lazulisong: I genuinely thought Yujin just like, lied about it?

kitsunec4: I’ve genuinely assumed the entire time that Yujin was being a smartass too?

rageprufrock: Yeah mark me down as also assuming he was just lying?

hollyberries: Yeah, Yujin was lying. We visit his home later and there isn’t even a hint of a wife on the premises.

rageprufrock: He’s honestly the only smart one in that crowd on this topic.

tammaiya: He’s such a cunning little shit, lol. It’s a little harder to invent fake kids, though. Also to avoid confusion— Yujin isn’t actually related, and as far as we know, neither is Nihuang. Grand Empress is just the kind of grandmother who also grandmothers all of your friends, because she has a lot of love to give.

moggiesandtea: And then Mei Changsu introduces himself as Su Zhe. Granny immediately calls him Xiao Shu and tells him to come here. Xiao Shu, you’ve gotten so skinny.

kitsunec4: TTATT

hollyberries: This is where I started weeping ugly tears.

tammaiya: Haha I’m fine this is fine [[upside down smile emoji]] (seriously, the first time I watched this I was still kind of confused about what was going on in episode 2, everything was happening so much and there were so many people, and this STILL hit me like a truck. Oof, just thinking about it makes me tear up. Poor MCS, this poor kind old lady who lost so much of the family she clearly adores. [[sobbing emoji]])

moggiesandtea: The circle of court ladies around Granny are confused by this and pass it off as Granny being confused. Only she would jump right to calling a stranger Xiao Su.

tammaiya: Side bar, Su and Shu sound very similar, and if one were to nickname Mei Changsu in this way, his name would be Xiao Su, so it’s an understandable mishearing by the court ladies. But at the same time it is an incredibly intimate thing to call an adult, hence the shock.

arrghigiveup: Meanwhile, Mei Changsu kneels there looking quietly devastated and like he’s about to BURST INTO TEARS and it’s fine this is fine lies nothing is fine.

tactless_yet_lovable: HIS FACE IS STONE. BUT YOU KNOW ON THE INSIDE HE IS DYING.

lazulisong: hahaahahahahahah IM NOT OKAY

rageprufrock: I’m not going to lie: this is where I hissed to myself, “Fuck yeah, that’s the good shit.”

moggiesandtea: Granny tells Mei Changsu she’s got his favorite pastry, beckons Nihuang over, and clasps their hands together. She tells them they’re good children and asks when they’re getting married.

hollyberries: SHE KNOCKS THEIR HANDS TOGETHER LIKE THEY’RE STILL BABIES. BECAUSE THEY ARE. THEY’RE ALL HER BABIES.

lunatique: Don’t think about Granny losing her sanity slowly over the years as she loses her beloved children and certainly don’t think about how the Chiyan case must’ve played on her nerves.

kitsunec4: okay so like...pretty sure I was lightly sick the entire time I marathoned the show in one week when I first watched it. So please imagine me, snotty, coughing, in my rattiest pjs just suddenly wailing and weeping into my cat’s fluff while she tried to escape. God. This damn show.

moggiesandtea: Mei Changsu clutches Nihuang’s hand and visibly has an Emotion with a capital E. He’s only startled out of it by Jingrui doing the proper leavetaking. Nihuang, understandably confused and curious, follows them out. Yujin and Jingrui, understandably wary of Nihuang-jie kicking their asses, scamper off, and Nihuang invites Mei Changsu on a walk. She asks him what happened just now.






lazulisong: even on the first viewing I was like “he - he - he CAN’T LET GO OF HER HAAAAAAAAAAND” and all of chat was like, gathered around me like cats watching a mouse die.

moggiesandtea: Mei Changsu is quick with the excuse of respecting an elder’s feeling and apologizes for his conduct. The two keep walking and talking, and Nihuang makes the insightful observation that Mr. Su has picked the busiest, most chaotic place to rest and recover. She’s in the middle of trying to figure out which faction he supports when they’re interrupted by an eunuch beating a servant boy.

Cue end credits, or, a montage of sadness, death, soldiers running, and significant looks.

tactless_yet_lovable: Pterodactyl shrieking my way to hell now. Lil’ Peanut is in the next ep.

tammaiya: XIAO SHU uuuugh I love these assholes so much.

Character Beats

moggiesandtea: So if you come into this completely cold, with zero foreknowledge of the plot, this is the episode where you start to have some serious questions about what the heck is up with Mei Changsu and exactly how much of what’s happening is orchestrated by him. I’m mostly thinking of his significant glance upwards while discussing his secret identity with Jingrui that pretty much screams “I know Xie Bi is eavesdropping, and that’s why I’m having this conversation.”

Although he’s also clearly not in complete control of everything that happens, because I think the visit with Granny was a complete surprise to him. Thus the emotions.

hollyberries: Haha my heart is dead.

lunatique: Hu Ge does an excellent job emoting deeply while trying to hide that fact. His micro-expressions get more telling at every rewatch.

tammaiya: This episode also introduces us to our second protagonist, Xiao Jingyan, and it’s such a good and succinct way of delivering the impact of the kind of person he is: honourable, unbending, stubborn to the point of sheer bloody-mindedness, and endlessly loyal to the Lin family. Without really telling us anything in words, we can already see how low the position he’s starting from is, how his brothers and father treat him with contempt, how much dignity he has in spite of all the slights he suffers. He’s stoic and uncomplaining but also uncompromising, and he really loves his mother. God, I love this stubborn water ox so damn much.

hollyberries: A note on the naming: the princes seem to be using generational names, while the emperor is a singular character name, so their dynasty was recently established, or was recently disrupted. The character for this generation is 景 (jǏng), broad meaning ‘scenery’. This is why all the princes are Jing-smtg: Jingxuan (Crown Prince), Jinghuan (Prince Yu), Jingyan (Prince Jing - different Jing).

Because Chinese loves us and wants us to have fun, there are also a number of homophone Jings in play. Prince Jing is Jingyan’s title - his 靖 (jìng) means tranquil. His mother’s title, NOT her name, is 静, for peaceful.

moggiesandtea: And those aren’t even the only Jings at play here, but we’ll cover those later.

Production Choices

moggiesandtea: With this episode, I feel I should explain why I keep hissing about the goddamn taotie, especially as they get even more screentime. There’s a nice clear taotie on Jingyan’s chest plate, there’s an even clearer one on the wall of the palace practice grounds, and we’re going to keep seeing them. My working theory is that the production staff sat down and said to themselves: how do we indicate this is historical? Like, really historical? Like pre-Tang Dynasty historical?




I’ll say this, their strategy was effective, even if it makes me mutter. See, we don’t have much visual or material culture surviving from the Liang dynasty (502-557)that we can say 100% is from the Liang, since it was one of multiple kingdoms around during the Northern and Southern Dynasties (420-589) and only lasted roughly two generations. Most of what we do have that is verifiably Liang is tomb sculpture--not sculptures from inside tombs, but big honking stone sculptures that were set up on the boulevards leading up to imperial tombs. (Which were summarily looted, because they were clearly there, see my related ranting on the genre of tomb robbing in general and Candle in the Tomb in particular.) So, without much in the way of historical evidence, the production crew went with borrowing super heavily from the pre-Northern and Southern Dynasties past.

You can’t count on architecture or clothing to provide much in the way of visual clues, because there is a startling amount of historical continuity there, at least in the eyes of the layman, so they chose motifs and artifacts that were dug out of tombs predating the Liang by a whole heck of a lot. But the main visual motif they hit upon is that of the taotie, which is from the fucking Shang dynasty (c. 1600-1046 BCE, but dates get super fuzzy that far back).

The taotie can be seen on practically every ritual bronze from the Shang dynasty. It was their Thing. For example:




The taotie motif was named by later Chinese scholars after one of the four fiends of Chinese mythology, and the name translates as “gluttonous beast.” It’s probably a safe bet to say that the people of the Shang dynasty did not call it that, and scholarship is currently coming down on the side of it being some sort of symbolic mashing together of the totems of the various clans that united under the Shang. You don’t see it on bronzes made after the Shang, because the Zhou (1046-256 BCE) liked their birds and then there was such a high demand for bronzes that nobody was getting fancy designs.

This is a very, very longwinded way to say there is NO GODDAMN REASON for the taotie to be the motif of the Liang imperial family, other than the production team wanted something that said “Old! Old! Super historical and OLD!” And then overshot the mark by almost two thousand years and a lot of dynasties.

tactless_yet_lovable: Talk nerdy to me.

kitsunec4: I love u, Moggies, you fucking nerd. For those of us who are not extensively well-read and educated about Chinese art history, there’s still a lot of visuals that are incredibly interesting in this episode. This is, I think, the first time we see a relatively large number of the movers and shakers of the character list together on one screen, making it easier to compare and contrast the costuming choices by the production.

In particular, I’m thinking of when we see the Emperor, the Crown Prince, Prince Yu, And Jingyan in the same room. Even without the careful framing and positioning of the characters in the space, the elaborateness (or lack thereof in Jingyan’s case) can inform the viewer quietly about the characters without resorting to a verbal infodump.




arrghigiveup: It very effectively lays out for the audience in a couple of short scenes what is only verbalised later on: Jingyan is so far out of favour with Dadperor it’s not even funny. He doesn’t even have permission to enter the palace without a direct command from the Emperor. For a couple of hours, fucking calligraphy takes precedence over his report. When he finally gets in, his plain, worn battle dress contrasts sharply with the opulence of, well, practically everyone else in the room with him, and he spends the whole encounter on one knee before the dais on which the others are, physically as far below the Emperor and his two brother princes as he can possibly get while still being in the same room as them.

This is what makes the future undertakings so momentous: at this point, he is a prince by birth, but he certainly isn’t treated like much of one, and as far as everyone else is concerned, he’s not even within visual range of the fight for the throne.

lazulisong: Oh yeah, even with me being relatively uninformed about sumptuary laws (I remember asking about Nihuang’s yellow accents, because I did have a vague idea that yellow was Imperial Family Only) it really made a lot of stuff clear about character stuff.

hollyberries: Black and gold are the colours of the emperor, usually, while red and gold are reserved for the crown prince. (Prince Yu is tap dancing ever so smugly on that line, being the adopted son of the empress and the highest ranking son of the emperor, and wears robes that rival the Crown Prince’s in richness.)

lazulisong:F’instance, I still hold and maintain that Mei Changsu’s outfits are so plain just to make it blisteringly clear how much the material they’re made out of cost.

arrghigiveup: Agreed. That cloak he wears a couple of times in this episode is simple in design but very visibly Not Cheap, and rageprufrock’s already mentioned the jade hairpiece last episode; you do not get jade of that colour and translucency just anywhere.




On the other end of the spectrum, we have the scene with the Crown Prince and Prince Yu officially meeting “Su Zhe” for the first time, and Prince Yu is not at all subtle about his aspirations. Dragons, giant, bright, gold dragons, on bright red. Like, dude, chill.




hollyberries: Prince Yu is in a weird position because, in historically Chinese households with multiple wives, the children of the main wife are the ones with the highest status, which means that on the face of it, Prince Yu should have been Crown Prince (being the Empress’ son wins over age). However, as we later find out, he’s adopted, which reduces the prestige of his mother being the empress. He is absolutely still sticking it to the Crown Prince by wearing a ton of coiling golden dragons (princes get four claws, emperors get five claws).

Final Thoughts

tactless_yet_lovable: Gross (or since I just spent the weekend around French-speakers, Grosse -- this is only funny to me and I don’t care at all, my heart is shredded) sobbing over how unprepared I was for seeing Jingyan, Prince Jing, the bae of tears.

rageprufrock: This is really the last “slow” episode of the series, almost all the groundwork is laid at this point, which means you can go into episodes three and four braced and fucking LIT for the Kill Bill sirens moment that ensured I would crawl through broken emotional glass to get to the end of this fucking series.

tactless_yet_lovable: How ominous is it to realize that eps 1 and 2 are the “easing in” episodes? Like, here are all the main players, here is enough of an understanding of the current political climate in Jinling/Daliang to not be completely in the dark, it’s go time, motherfuckers.

kitsunec4: We’re so goddamn doomed you guys, the recaps are only going to get longer and weepier from here on. There’s just, such deft humanity to all the characters, it’s the little personal moments in the middle of the tangled plots and action that take us out at the knees and collect our tears to bathe in...the author, Hai Yan, is gonna be youthful forever from floating on the tears of her fanbase.

tammaiya: Everything just happens so much, guys. It’s only episode 2 and we’re ALREADY IN TEARS.

moggiesandtea: One side effect of watching these episodes while diligently taking notes is that the emotional impact is blunted by how often I hit pause...or maybe it’s just because this is my third time watching the early episodes, and if the 4-5 times I’ve watched Grave of the Fireflies has taught me anything, it’s that analytical detachment gets easier with exposure. I am 100% here for y’all’s broken sobbing though.



Join us here in two weeks for a discussion of Nirvana in Fire: Episode 3, as this Feelings Train goes full steam ahead!

Comments

[sartorias]

Terrific recap. I've watched it too many times to count, and I learned stuff here.

One comment: Meng is smart when he needs to be. (Thinking of a dungeon confrontation in a way later ep.)

OH yeah, ETA: I come down strongly on the side of those who think Mei Changsu knew Xie Bi was listening. He even raised his voice slightly when he said, "It's not like I am a criminal or anything, I simply changed my name so I could enter the city quietly."

In other words, by this oopsie-not-oopsie he hopes to satisfy the wolves like Marquis Xie and Prince You that having penetrated one mask, they will think themselves clever and won't think to investigate any further.

He's laid his plans very, very carefully and well, but even he can't foresee the emotional landmines. As we see when the summons to Great-grandmother comes.

Another thing about that scene: I love watching Nihuang's expression. When MCS and the Sunshine Boys first enter, she looks interested. When she watches them leave, she looks very thoughtful.

[tammaiya]

There’s definitely a distinction between dense and stupid, I think. I would say Meng is dense because he has a tendency to miss cues, or misread the atmosphere, and he’s terrible at lying and also is prone to thoughtless slips of the tongue, but he’s not stupid. He has his really insightful and clever moments, but those can be easily missed or downplayed because there are so many people in the cast who are sharp enough to cut themselves and because he DOES have those dense aspects. Also because he’s not the kind of guy who is particularly interested in more purely intellectual pursuits or spends time thinking about things in minute detail. But if he wasn’t smart, he probably wouldn’t be a general, and he definitely wouldn’t be one of the only people MCS trusted with his secret.

Meng is basically a lovable teddy bear of a man, he’s so great.

[sartorias]

Yes! Yes! Yes! *head bobbing like a dashboard doll*

[april_rainer]

Guys. Can we talk about the fact that Mei Changsu has not been raising Fei Liu alone for the past however many years? Lin Chen is apparently coparenting. And just. These two trolls are NOT QUALIFIED PARENTS.

I've been reading star-shadows' translation of the novel and there these glancing references to how Lin Chen is trying (and failing) to teach Fei Liu to lie and just like. Mei Changsu is the *good* parent in comparison and I (like Jingrui) am kind of eternally horrified by this even as I have so many feelings about how truly sweet the affection between Mei Changsu and Fei Liu is, especially with everything else being so entirely traumatic.

[kitsunec4]

Lin Chen and Mei Changsu should not be allowed to raise any child oh my god. There are so many sections of the book where I just have to put it down, pause, walk around, and come back with a soothing mug of tea.

...I’m sure they’d make fun uncles. But no. They should not be primary rule makers for anyone.

[galaxysoup]

Reading your recaps has gotten me started watching this show. It is so helpful to have this commentary track, because at the moment I am at about 50% accuracy remembering who everyone is. Thank you for this valuable community service, guys!

[tinwateringcan]

Thanks to your if-you-like-Guardian recs, I finished marathoning this show over the last weekend in a haze of tears and leftover pie.

(roommate, looking up from computer: are you actually crying
me, on couch sobbing into the cat: HE TOOK THE CLOTH OFF THE TABLET
roommate: are you okay
me: I WILL NEVER BE OKAY AGAIN)

Which is to say, in short: thank you! Goddamn, but it's good.

Considering where some parents in this series set the bar, Mei Changsu and Lin Chen don't do so badly. Fei Liu is very loved, after all. Just also very, very spoiled.

[arrghigiveup]

I would just like you to know that your comment got shared in our group chat and engendered a significant amount of glee XD

[arbitraryallegory]

You are all now my mortal enemies, I have spent almost 2 weeks crying!!! This was the most incredible show I’ve watched in years and I’m suing for emotional distress!!! I think i have a really compelling case for forced dehydration also!!! What should I watch now or should I just punch myself in the face??? (Seriously what should I watch now??? I have no idea how to find The Good Shit here)

[arrghigiveup]

Muahahahahahaha. Welcome to hell =D

As for what to watch next, we had a rec post a while ago called If This, Then That. Fair warning though, NiF sets the bar SO HIGH in terms of quality; it's kinda all downhill from here. I think a little bit of why we've been a little meaner on the recent Guardian recaps is cos they're now contrasted directly with NIF every other week, and we'll all feeling the rage of "THIS COULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER" ^^"

[arbitraryallegory]

I was afraid that might be the case about setting the bar high, like when the first or second fic you read in a fandom is so great that it’s hard to find another that’s fulfilling. I haven’t watched the sequel yet because I don’t want to be constantly comparing them or be bored with the characters/plot just because it’s not the exact same thing I just had, and in my heart the exact same thing as what I just had is what I want, y’know? I think I need a pallet cleanser of something really different first. Maybe I’ll actually go back and finish guardian since I stopped on like episode 10 when it got pulled from youtube.

(Wanna hear something that baffled me at the time? I didn’t even cry while I watched the last episode of NiF! Turns out I had some sort of delayed reaction or blank out and the grief didn’t actually hit me full force until I went looking for fix it fic when I got off work and instead immediately read a fic that Was Not In Any Way Doing Any Fixing And Instead Broke Me Into Two Hundred Pieces and then I laid in my bed and cried and cried and cried and then cried some more.)

[arrghigiveup]

Oh, well, if you would like a rec for a fix-it fic that will absolutely not make you cry even more, no, definitely not, ha ha ha, try In Time, Once Again =DDD

It will fix things, that much I promise. Eventually, anyway =DDD

[arbitraryallegory]

T_______T I can’t read that one yet because I’m playing around with the idea of a fic with a premise that is similar enough that I’d be afraid of accidentally copying ideas from it. Still trying to decide if I’m too terrified to try lol.

[april_rainer]

A little out of left field, but every time I watch Nirvana in Fire, I immediately read Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold afterwards. It is a totally different medium, and not Chinese at all, but the main character is ill and very smart and trying to save his royals from a corrupt court (and it has a happy ending).

I think the differences help me move past the fact that I have finished Nirvana in Fire and no art is wholly satisfying, but your mileage may vary, depending on what you need more of in you NiF hangover. But I thought I'd pass on my coping mechanisms just in case someone else can use it.

(If the Scholars have been cdrama suggestions, PLEASE LET ME KNOW I NEED MORE. Chalion is all very well, but it's not the same.)

[arrghigiveup]

Ahaha, I don't see the link myself, but I really wanted to give a drive-by high five because my personal comfort novel is Paladin of Souls <3

[april_rainer]

Yeah, the link is very tenuous indeed! But I've watched Nirvana in Fire straight through twice, and read Curse of Chalion immediately afterwards both times so it seems to be a thing in my brain apparently?

But *high five* fellow Bujold fan! I love the Five Gods series (especially Ista; she's great).

[arrghigiveup]

Yesss I love most of Bujold's work in general, but I particularly love Ista. Her snark and general crankiness are constant Big Moods lol

[arbitraryallegory]

I love book recs in any capacity!!! Thanks, that sounds right up my alley :DDDD I love media about court intrigue in any culture, I think that's part of why NiF jerked my in by the hair immediately and never let go!

[setnet]

I am loving the education these posts are giving me on the Chinese art history and sumptuary laws and so on that are at play in NiF! I had a sort of vague guess at the significance of some of it, like the colours worn by the emperor and the princes and so on, but it's nice to have a bit more of the context. Thanks!

[regonym]

These are such great discussions, I'm really enjoying these! :D